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For Defender Magazine, interview with David Carrick

Q:	Thanks for your time David. We are sorry to hear of your departure. What is the structure to replace you?
A:	Bob Mayley, formerly of Securicor, based at Sutton Park House will continue as the H&S Manager for Group 4 Securicor.
Q:	Given that you were instrumental in establishing a good rapport with the GMB safety reps what do you leave behind?
A:	I hope that I leave a stronger relationship between employees (Union Safety Representatives and Managers) as that has always been my aim to promote the understanding that joint actions are successful, and not just in relation to H&S. The strap line for my training for Managers and Supervisors is "H&S Management, It's Just Good Management!". On a personal note I also leave a large number of people who I have enjoyed working with.
Q:	Are we any closer to a National H&S committee now the company has changed to G4S?
A:	I think that this needs to be tabled once more, now that GMB have a new National H&S Officer and G4S have established this new structure. The progress made previously was with people, on both sides, who are no longer in post and the current post holders need to determine the aims and objectives for themselves.
Q:	What are you going on to?
A:	At the moment I don't have any prospects and am registering with agencies. My aim is to continue to focus on H&S however I do not wish to leave Cheltenham, my wife has objected to any more relocations, which may restrict my options.
Q:	What changes do you see being caused by licensing within the industry?
A:	Optimistically I can see that the status of the industry will be raised with licensing raising standards and eliminating "cowboy security companies".
Q:	Do you think this will improve the accident ratio's in the industry?
A:	Having seen many good ideas fail to achieve the full benefit the pessimist part of me can see companies failing to take the matter of licensing and H&S as anything more than an administrative exercise and with financial pressures driving the industry it will be lowest cost options to provide an audit trail. However I do expect some organisations and individuals (and I hope that includes G4S) to see that positive actions to raise standards of performance, with T&D/H&S fully integrated into the business process, can deliver benefits on all fronts. That expectation is based on my experience over many years and of other industries, the really successful organisations obtain the commitment of all their employees and I am sure that G4S could benefit from close co-operation with the GMB.
Q:	Do you think that G4S's new H&S management structure will enable this?
A:	With fewer levels of management it gives managers greater exposure to the wider workforce and provides opportunities for devolving responsibilities, it is a much used phrase but I have always been committed to "empowerment" of the wider workforce and have witnessed the benefits that can be obtained.
Q:	Given that the present structure incorporates the Safety Reps in concert with your customers safety steps do you see any conflicts within the safety role?
A:	I have never found that the involvement of Safety Reps caused conflicts, so long as they were also made aware of the commercial requirements and constraints. Some of the best initiatives I have witnessed were devised by Safety Reps and "shop floor workers" who were given access to relevant information. One example was from the food industry, data revealed that 25% of accidents at the process and retail ends of the food chain involved one piece of equipment, the actions that were suggested by the people who worked with this equipment led to a dramatic reduction in accidents. Until all of the information was made available workers at different stages of the process thought their experience of the equipment was unique and no action was taken on grounds of cost. The only issue that I have been aware of with client/G4S Safety Representatives is the exaggeration of risks in environments where there is little risk e.g. office environments, when as a company we have to maintain an objective approach bearing in mind that we have employees working in a wide range of environments and have to apply a consistent standard to risk assessment.
Q:	The GMB is firstly interested in protecting our members in their work environment and while we would not want to jeopardise your contracts we must ensure their safety. Do you think that most site managers are aware of the coordinated approach to H&S?
A:	I hope so! My principal objective over the past 2.5 years has been education. I began with a short training session for Group 4 Total Security EMM which resulted in their commitment to a full management training programme, that has continued since the merger. I have tried to ensure that all employees are aware that H&S should not be used as a road block or to poke clients in the eye with. My message is to stress our professionalism and when asked by a client to carry out a new task our response should always be a qualified YES. Qualified by, as soon as we have carried out the risk assessment and introduced SSOW or once we have consulted our H&S department.
Angus Groat

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